Luis is a gay software engineer in Manila, Philippines.
Carl is a queer engineer & writer in San Francisco, California.
Luis: i mean don’t get me wrong im proud of a lot of things about being a filipino but i would ditch this citizenship in a heartbeat
Carl: But, it isn’t something you’ve ever seriously pursued. I mean, it’s a lot of work, but it seems very doable for someone with your skills & education.
L: it is, but i have an answer to this. you have no idea how much i’ve thought about this haha. especially with the recent events in my country. there’s one compounding issue for me which is that i am useless in real life. i mean, i cannot live without a house helper.
L: that’s really all there is to it. i am a man child who cannot take care of himself 😞 i think i would literally die if there was nobody to do stuff normal people do because i don’t know how to do them
C: You would not die.
L: you will find this funny but i don’t even know how to fold clothes
C: Let me show you something
C: My clothes. I barely fold them, they look like crap. And, I’m still alive!
L: hahaha okay point taken hahaha. i guess if i lived with someone else who could teach me id survive. i don’t even know how to buy food at a wet market. grocery is fine but ive seen my mom shop at a wet market and it’s just so complex. you have to touch the fish, smell the fish, etc etc. you have to know what kind of fish it is. LOL
C: Yes you’d have some things to learn. I’m not saying it would be easy. But, I just don’t believe this is the real barrier for you. I think it’s an excuse that you’ve made for not pursuing any options.
C: Do you want to know what I think is the real barrier for you?
C: i think on some level, you don’t believe you’re worthy of giving that kind of opportunity to yourself. Is that true?
L: hmm i think it’s more of like an assessment of “is going through all of this paperwork and effort going to be worth it?” i could describe it more as like… having to battery ram yourself through those doors as a filipino. and those who are actually able to do it, only succeed because of luck and sheer determination.
C: Yes and where does determination come from?
L: desperation mostly. because of how bad the situation is here. and im one of the lucky ones where i havent reached that level yet. there’s always a breaking point right? like a point where you go “oh fuck this crap i need to go to another country to work so i can provide for my family.” that’s the motivation of most overseas filipino workers.
C: But determination can also come from a strong dream, a vision, a North Star. Moving toward something you want rather than away from something you’re trying to avoid.
L: you’re right, carl. i can’t deny that. this dream of moving to another country for me is just like, akin to the dream of becoming an astronaut. not really impossible, but highly improbable. and the cost benefit analysis skews to just “stay where you are” right now. so it’s nice and all to imagine this happening for me but i don’t think i have the drive or motivation to actually get it done. and this is not really an excuse but i feel like it has something to do with how i am as a person as well
L: im like an “okay sure, whatever” kind of person, not really a “go get it” kind of guy LOL
C: I wonder if the missing motivation or drive to take on such a big dream is a sort of depression, that you’ve struggled with for a long time.
L: im not really sure. i think at the back of my head i always default to “welp, we’re all going to die anyway when the sun explodes in 4 billion years - what’s the point of anything really”
L: so my life is just very undirected right now really. i mean where i am in my career is not really a function of “i wanted this for myself”, but more of like “oh sure I can do that”
C: Sure, I've had periods like that in my own career.
C: That’s who you know yourself to have been so far in your journey
L: yeah, and i don’t know any other part of myself which isn’t this i guess
L: i mean wait
L: i do know, but honestly it only comes out in video games.
L: that’s the only time i can set clear goals and really work towards something. because the feedback mechanism is near immediate. like… i want that magical staff that gives +X stats right… im not sure if it’s going to drop in this dungeon but i know exactly what the drop rate is. so i can compute how much i have to grind to get there, and im willing to do that work because i am sure of the outcome.
L: but life isnt like that lol. there are no sure outcomes and for me. if there arent any sure outcomes then why eeven bother? i can work my ass off for the next 5 to 7 years gettiing everything lined up for a citizenship and the get denied at the consulate 5 months before my trip just because the consul might not like how i look or speak
C: It’s true that there is no “goal” in life, like there is in a video game.
L: i know i have a very defeatist attitude in life i guess
C: I think we all have a life drive and a death drive, and they come forward in different moments.
L: what do you mean by life drive and death drive?
C: what you’re saying resonates a lot with me because I have very often felt that sense of “it’s not worth it” with regard to many things in my life
C: maybe life/death drive isn’t the right metaphor
C: But, that part of me that says “no it’s not worth it” is a depressed part of Carl. He feels he doesn’t have a lot of energy, needs to conserve it and stay safe in his choices.
L: i see. honestly i don’t know what to say. i don’t think im depressed (or at least i don’t hope so) lol
L: to be honest i feel like this is just my neutral state
C: Nah I don’t mean that you’re depressed as in, you’re sad all the time. Doesn’t seem like you are
L: my depressed state is like so much worse
C: in my world, this sort of thing is way more subtle.
C: like, if I get really good sleep, I will wake up and be a lot more likely to choose adventure. And if I get poor sleep, I’m more likely to say no.
L: hmmm i understand that in a way but mine is sporadic. not really tied to anything like sleep (or at least i don’t think so). i do get into the “hey i wanna go on an adventure” thing like maybe two to three times a year but i tend to be wary of it. because i feel like making decisions when im in that mood is going to get me in a lot of trouble when i come back down to my default state
C: Yeah, because the adventurer takes risks!
L: yeah. the adventurer Luis takes risks that the normal Luis actually feels too tired or to unmotivated to do hahaha. like i always get into this thing where i chastise msyelf because “oh god what i have done again? i regret this” whenever i try to go out of my comfort zone
C: ok so that’s what I’m talking about
C: that tired/unmotivated feeling is kind of like, the death drive I was talking about. and the life drive is the one that says yeah, let’s do this
L: i see
C: I don’t like the terms life / death drive because they both can kill you haha
L: then yes i guess if we use death drive as the identifier for the feeling of “let’s just do the bare minimum so we don’t die” then that’s me all the time
C: yeah. that’s what I meant by “depression” earlier. and, if it’s your default then you think “oh, this is me. this is just who I am.” but, I believe it’s not who you are. It’s just your current default. You’ve had other defaults at other times in your life.
L: i agree with all of this except the last statement. i think this has been my default my whole life. i can’t remember a time when this hasnt been the default.
L: i have felt deviations from it but it always stabilizes back at this sort of line
C: Oh ok. Well, then, what makes you agree with the other statements?
L: i mean i agree that this is my current default and has always been my whole life
C: As I see it, one goal of mental health / therapy (which I’m about to start doing for myself again) is to adjust the defaults. Do you believe other defaults are possible?
L: oh… ummm that im not sure
L: i think so, but there is some reticence there
L: like i don’t even like how i am when im drunk because i hate being more extroverted. so i feel like it’s going to be the same thing. it would not feel like “me” anymore.
C: Yeah, part of the process of moving into that default would be to mourn the previous default and the things you liked about it.
L: this also explains i guess all my reticence about mood altering substances. there’s just a lot of fear that it’s not going to be me anymore. and that i won’t like the person i become even though to society it might be a more amicable person.
C: You mean like alcohol? antidepressants?
L: i mean in general whatever it is. alcohol, drugs, psych meds. anything that makes me feel unreasonably happy. it’s just a weird feeling for me. i think you’re hitting something here...
L: i don’t like feeling happy i guess
L: it makes me feel extremely weird.
C: Now we’re getting closer to the heart of it
L: extremely sad is very familiar territory. so anything from neutral to outright depressed im fine with it. but happiness is like… it feels like there’s an alien in my brain.
C: So you’re happy but at the same time you’re like, this is so weird.
L: i guess maybe that’s also a small part of why my relationships never worked lol. cause id be very happy and it would feel extremely weird. i think my mind is programmed to think that when im happy i have to prepare my defenses. because that means there’s trouble in the horizon. so i hate being happy in a way. because it makes me feel vulnerable
C: yes. it’s a tender place to be
L: it’s like that adage people say that when you’re at the top, there’s nowhere to go but down. and i think that’s very apt in this situation. so i dread that going down so much, id rather be down all the time. when im happy there’s always this thing that in my head that goes “well… there’s no way this can end well cause you’ll have to come down from this manic episode sooner or later and then it’s going to suck so much more because of how big the delta is”
C: yeah so one of the benefits of your current default is, it’s stable
C: and you value that a lot
L: as opposed to just staying close to the ground and the delta isn’t so bad because im just normal, sad, a little bit sadder etc haha
L: oh and i assume we’re talking about long term happiness here right? not like temporal happiness like “hi im happy i got to spend time and hang out with my friends today” cause that’s fine
L: i don’t even know what long term happiness actually means hahaha. the most sustained happiness i got was maybe… i dunno… 4 days max, and then i have to force myself to get down from it because it’s just a very frightening place to be in
C: yeah, I mean if we’re talking about a new default then yes, we’re talking about a longer term happiness
L: im realizing a lot of things suddenly, because of this conversation
L: i didnt even notice how afraid i am of being happy until we talked about it lol
L: i mean… will this change anything? im not sure. but it’s still good to know where im at.
C: yes! it will because awareness itself is sooo powerful. just having the awareness of a part of yourself that you couldn’t see before
L: i dunno carl. i realize now that happiness always equates to disappointment (at least for me)
L: ive always treated happiness like a fake temporal state. an illusion if you may. because the world is just a whole lot of sad and shitty. hahaha. oh god that sounds so emo.
C: it really depends on how you look at it. One thing I’ve noticed is that if I’m sad, the world is sad. and if I'm happy, the world is happy.
L: can i posit a hypothesis?
L: what if there’s some people who are just born to be naturally happy and some who are born to be naturally sad? one drives progress and the other side tempers against risk
L: so from an evolutionary standpoint, there has to be sad people as well as happy ones. perhaps an individual’s “balance” might diverge from the average, but it all evens out in the end when you look at it from a sample size of millions
L: i.e. maybe im just a sad boi and it’s fine if i am because im balanced out by some other happy person in society hahahhaa
C: so what do you think this means for you, in terms of your role in society?
L: i think it gives me a place honestly. i am attracted to this sort of idea because ive always felt outcast… different you know (but not in the special snowflake kind of way). like if my default state is generally meh, then perhaps it’s to balance out a person somewhere in the world who is very outgoing and adventurous and stuff
L: here’s my struggle carl: i know now im generally on the more morose side of the spectrum, but is that really wrong? i think this is the question. like, maybe it’s okay for me to be sad Luis because i provide that balance of risk aversion to my sphere of influence in the world
C: as long as you are comfortable with your default and all of the trade offs that come with it, you will probably just stay there.
L: well that’s true
L: im not sure how to answer that. my only experience with the happiness side of the spectrum though is discomfort. is that enough to say that maybe that’s what deters me from choosing that as my default?
C: if it’s enough for you, then it’s enough. there’s no goal.
L: i dunno. happiness is a weird feeling for me. it’s always coupled with impending doom. ive never known happiness otherwise. it’s always “oh yeah you’re happy? well you won’t be for long so get prepared for that!” lol. it’s always that. so it’s never a comfortable state to be in.
C: I think people who have been through a lot of suffering, or let’s say abusive relationships in their lives, they can become so used to it that when something healthy comes along, it just does not feel right at all. Like, if all a person has known is how to be in abusive relationships, a healthy relationship is going to feel really strange. And they may have an impulse of just… not believing it, or running away, or attacking
L: hahaha is that what you think is happening to me? i mean to be fair im not contesting it in any way or form
C: I’m wondering if there’s some version of that going on for you when you feel weird about feeling happy
L: oh definitely. lol. im self aware enough to understand that there is a probability my mind is just very good at making rationales as to why i should be a sad boi
C: Yeah. Like, the default is well rehearsed.
L: i know it sounds counterintuitive but happiness is not a pleasant experience for me
C: Honestly I think we all have some of this, in different areas of our lives. I certainly do.
L: hence the reason i hate drinking. because it makes me feel “happy.”
C: alcohol is a strange substance tbh. like, it makes people feel “happy” in some ways, but it’s also literally poison
L: i mean it makes me feel synthetically happy - like i don’t overthink too much, my inhibitions are lower, and i just generally feel love for more people. and i hate it lol
C: yeah, I can see that
L: i like overthinking because it makes me feel prepared for the eventual disappointment of reality
C: yeah, like, you like overthinking. and, you know it has a cost or else you wouldn’t call it “overthinking” it would just be… thinking, right? every default has so many tradeoffs.
L: hahaha yeah. i mean i don’t know how to do it otherwise though. i can’t not think about things. it’s like an involuntary thing.
C: you’re very smart Luis. I think one thing you have done, with your particular default, is you have sharpened your mind so much.
L: oh thank you. but i know this isnt leading into a compliment hahahaha
C: I just wanted to highlight that, because it makes the “sad boi” story more complex
L: you know what’s making me so happy right now is that we’re finally naming my state sad boi. i kinda dig it hahahahaha
C: great, go with it!
L: it’s great because it’s such an internet meme but i can relate to it so much lol. you know prior to this conversation i never understood it when people said they self sabotaged because they were afraid of being happy. i was always like “well that’s the dumbest thing ive heard.”
L: but now i get it lol. it’s not like being afraid of being happy… it’s being afraid of the consequences of being happy. i don’t fear the emotion. i fear what it eventually leads into (rash/risky decisions, high risk of disappointment, etc)
C: I think everyone has the potential to experience profound inner peace and contentment in this life, but I believe most ppl are afraid of it. I know I am.
L: is it possible to be at peace and contented but not be happy? i ask this because i genuinely feel like im more or less at peace with myself but i know now that im not happy
C: it’s hard because you have to define happy
L: hmm, well for me happy is like that exhilaration. that joy of getting a text from your crush. that feeling of waking up thinking “i want to go climb a mountain today.”
L: peace and contentmentt for me on the other hand is like… “yeah im fine with this” and “i don’t really need anything more”
C: I think there’s something else going on here. what if, what we’re really talking about here is, when you drink, you start to feel like your mind relax a bit, and it’s not overthinking anymore, and so there is room in your awareness for you to actually feel your own body.
L: oh… yeah i get this 100%. i know exactly what you mean. if that’s what you mean by happy im still not it btw. lol
C: is that what feels weird? feeling the sensation of your body that you normally wouldn’t feel?
L: yeah, i mean the answer is yes to all of the above scenarios. but if that’s your definition of happy then yes definitely it feels weird. it’s that kind of happiness we were talking about earlier where you’re extermely vulnerable because you’re just open to the world. if that’s your definition of happy then i havent been that for more than a day at the most lol
C: nah I don’t think that’s my defintion of happy. and honestly I’m kind of tired of happy, because doesn’t inner peace sound better?
L: yeah definitely
C: so let’s go with inner peace
L: i guess i dont have that either as well since this whole topic started because of how discontent i feel about getting old
C: totally, I mean, I don’t think inner peace is some permanent state. I think it’s an ideal that we can aim for
C: there’s this idea from meditation of equanimity. Equanimity, as I understand it, is a kind of inner balance. One kind of equanimity is: my mind and body are in agreement and at peace with each other.
L: this is a very good definition for me of inner peace. or inner balance rather
C: One challenge for me as a queer person has been learning to be free in my body, learning to trust my body, and learning to give my body a voice in my life. That’s the really hard part for me
L: im not really sure i understand this carl
L: like i understand the words but they don’t mean anything to me. what does it mean to trust your body? ive always just thought of my body as a shell. and this shell is degrading at a rate faster than i am prepared for. that’s about it for me haha
C: one way of saying it would be, getting to know that weird feeling better, and making friends with it, and building some sort of trusting relationship with it. if that weird feeling is indeed the feeling of your body when the thoughts are out of the way
L: okay i think i understand a little bit more with this. you’re talking about the visceral reaction
C: like, the mind has one language, which you know very well. the body has a different language that it speaks. and if someone walks up to you and starts speaking in Greek then you are probably not going to be able to trust that person easily. you’d have to get to know the language more
L: okay… i honestly don’t understand this but can i reframe this in another way that might make sense to me? when you talk about things like this do you mean to say how, for example, in my mind i feel more masculine but i hate the fact that i feel like i act feminine?
C: ummm sure, that’s a good example I think. because, in that case there’s a conflict going on that is in some way blocking inner peace
L: i think im struggling with the metaphor of thinking of the body as a separate unit for me haha.
C: it’s not a metaphor and it’s not really separate either of course, I mean I think it’s all one system, but
L: im not sure i follow when you mean the body has a different language hehe
C: I guess I would ask, who is Luis? Are you your thoughts?
L: yes, but i think the more complete answer is i am my thoughts and also the group of cells that comprise my physical appearance and my place in the physical universe
L: im honestly not sure if those are even separate. because my thoughts are just electrical impulses in cells
C: if you are your thoughts, then what hears those thoughts? is that you also?
L: i think it’s also just me. it’s like an echo command i guess. and ive read recently some ppl can’t even hear their own thoughts. apparently not everyone has that ability
C: ok, so there is a clear speaker and a clear listener in this inner conversation, right?
L: i don’t know how to answer this. im not being purposely dense btw haha. it all just feels like what i would imagine a person standing in an empty room feels like when they start talking to themselves. sure there is a speaker and a listener but it’s just that one person
C: and is there more than one “speaker”, or just one?
L: for me it’s just one
C: nice. so you’re in this room and you’re just talking to yourself. and that’s you
C: both speaker and listener
C: and like, is the speaker always right?
L: what do you mean by always right?
C: as the listener, do you agree with everything the speaker is telling you?
L: well most of the times. i don’t really distinguish in this case between speaker and listener because i instinctively know they are one and the same. is the thought process revised? sure, but ive never asked myself a question. and then my answer was no. i mean, ive never said anything in my head rather, and i didnt agree with it
C: I want to distinguish the speaker and listener more. to me they are very different.
L: i understand theoretically what you mean but im having a hard time understanding it hehe. whenever i hear thoughts in my head it just like… very unified. there’s really no “disagreement” i guess between the speaker and the listener. the listener just hears things, it doesnt really need to process what it’s hearing because it already knows what the speaker is saying because it is the speaker
C: ok so are body sensations also speakers?
L: oh no they are not. they don’t have thoughts lol. they’re just sensations
C: and who is sensing them? the listener?
L: hmm im not sure how to answer that. my instinctive answer is to say both because i don’t really distinguish between the listener or the speaker
C: but if they are not thoughts then they aren’t saying anything (like, in whatever language your thoughts are happening in), so they aren’t speakers. but they are somehow received by you. so, that’s one place where, it seems, the listener is different from the speaker?
L: i guess… if you put it that way. but when i feel pain or sensation it doesnt feel like a language really. i mean it doesnt get processed like thought.
L: it just is
L: so i dunno for example if you put a flame underneath my palm, my hand just moves away. i don’t have to think “ouch this hurts i think i need to move my hand away”
L: there is of course a separate thought thread that spawns
L: that has thoughts like “oh jesus this hurts what the hell.” but it’s just more reactionary that useful.
C: in my world it’s almost like the listener feels the pain of the flame, and also the thought of “ouch”, while the body has its own reaction
L: i think that’s why im getting lost hahaha. i cannot differentiate the body’s reaction from my thoughts
L: i mean it reacts with lizard brain i guess lol. i don’t know how to describe it
C: yes, there’s the impulse at the nervous system level, then there’s the feeling of pain, and then there’s all of the thoughts spawned from that
L: yup i follow that so far
C: so in my model the listener both feels the pain and hears the thoughts surrounding it. and, that’s me! I’m not the thoughts alone or the pain alone, I’m the thing listening to it all.
L: ok i think i understand. i don’t hink my listener does anything tbh. whenever i feel things and think things, it’s the speaker part that does it.
C: for me, the language of the body is any kind of sensation or experience that isn’t a thought
L: okay, but how are you able to understand it? i mean what is there to learn or understand from it? are they not just base nervous system impulses?
L: in my head they’re just like getter methods. they don’t do any logic processing lol
C: well, I can’t describe what there is to learn from it, because I’m speaking to you in the language of the mind! but, I can try. ALL of your perception of being alive comes through this language of the body
L: can you describe a before and after situation when you laerned more about your language of the body
L: like before i learned X about my body language this was how i felt or reacted and after i learned Y thing this is now how i feel/react
C: let me think about that, it’s a great question
L: i think im struggling even with this definition because for me my perception of being alive is thought. like… i know in my head im alive because i can think, not because im receiving some signal from my nervous system
C: I think you’re talking about the idea of being alive rather than the feeling of being alive? What I mean about “the perception of being alive” is: I can feel, taste, smell, see, touch… Without those things you’d be just thoughts in an empty room
L: ah yes okay
C: I’m still thinking about your question. it’s tough to put into words
L: it’s very hard for me to sort of conceptually understand it because for me my body is just like… it’s really like nothing. it’s just a mechanism that receives input and enacts commands. it’s not a separate entity in the sense that it has it’s own language or anything. it’s more like a garment, rather than its own sentient thing.
C: it sounds like many of your interactions with your body are mediated by your thoughts. In other words, you think about doing something and then you move your body from that thought, as opposed to the other way around
L: wait… isnt this how it normally is?
C: It’s how it normally is, for you. But what if the body would “speak” and move itself, and then maybe you have some thought that comes up after
L: omg no this has never happened to me. this is kinda scary
L: what if your body picks up a knife and starts killing ppl 😳
L: i mean that’s an extreme example of course
C: well, that’s what I mean by trust
L: so your body “speaks” to you? what the heck hahaha
C: yours speaks to you too, this isn’t far fetched
L: i mean i was being a bit facetious about the murdering thing. but ive never had my body “speak” to me. it’s quite a bit of an unnerving thought, if it would do that
C: I’m thinking of an example that will make it sound less umm outlandish
L: im sure you mean it in a much more subtle nuanced way, right? like it doesnt really do things out of its own volition. it just gives you sort of like “hey carl i kind wanna do this.” is that what you mean? like maybe it wants to stretch or something
C: Stretching is a perfect example. Yes, it definitely does that. But it’s not a thought. When you are in love it’s not a thought, it’s some sort of message from the body.
L: yeah okay then if we frame it that way then yes i guess my body does speak to me.
C: So, it wants to stretch. and the mind says, no you can’t stretch because I have a meeting to get to. Or the mind says yeah, let’s do that.
L: it tells me sometimes when im about to get sick
L: okay i get it now
C: One thing I am learning is how to hug people in a new way. This sounds so crazy but for a long time I hugged more from a place of thoughts. I’d think about how I was holding the person, where I was putting my hands, etc. and my hugs were very stiff as a result. And now, I hug more from my body, and my body knows exactly how to hold them. I just have to get out of the way.
L: ive always hugged (and have sex) from my body (now that its clear to me what this means) but i totally understand where you’re coming from. and i love this for you. there was just really no language reference for me for this. i just thought everyone does this lol.
C: so like, back to your earlier example, if your body wants to move in a feminine way, and your mind doesn’t trust that or shames it, then yeah. but like, who is “right”?
L: okay i see what you mean now. this is the one place there’s just so much disconnect. in this situation, i force my body. i mean, ultimately the mind has to supersede right?
C: Does it?
L: but of course, it’s so taxing, and i can’t have my mind monitor my movement all the time
C: yeah, you can’t
L: and honestly it’s annoying af
C: and yeah, it takes so much energy to operate the system in this way. it just isn’t efficient
L: sometimes some friends would take a video of me interacting with other people or just moving in general and i hate it because it looks so feminine
L: there’s two things about this issue as well, carl. #1 is what we’ve been talking about, i.e. my mind is very masculine, but my body just makes annoyingly feminine movements at times, and #2 culturally speaking, the local gay culture here is very straight-acting centric
L: so there’s really both internal and external forces at play
L: gay guys who act straight have much higher “value” (i put that in quotes) over those who are effeminate, because this is still a misogynistic society and feminine = weaker in our culture. sorry, i have to give some nuance to that: weaker in the sense of power. our culture has high regard for women in traditionally feminine aspects like nurturing, leadership etc etc
L: so anyway going back to what we were talking - you were saying something about getting more familiar with this weird feeling. but also building a more trusting relationship with the body. and now that we’ve clarified definitions then yes, this is definitely my body speaking to me in that sense
L: yeah, i don’t trust my body lol
C: Me too. The way I have at times seen it for myself is that my mind is an authoritarian regime controlling my body. My mind neglects and abuses my body. My body just wants to be free, and my mind keeps it locked up. I’m working to heal that relationship.
L: i see
C: Because, what I”ve found is that when I can heal it somewhat, I get to experience more inner peace, and I get more energy too.
L: i think for me it’s selective trust. i trust my body so much when it comes to matters of health and well being (e.g. feeling sick, needing rest, needing to work out etc) or in matters of personal safety (i tihink i mentioned a long time ago that i feel like a have 6th sense for danger)
L: but there is so much disconnect with the mobility division of my body
C: yes. I have had so much of that and honestly, seems it’s common for engineers in general
L: to the point that im seriously pondering of going through a medical thing next year to lower the pitch of my voice. because i feel like my voice is too high. and it’s not because i can’t talk at a lower pitch but my body just doesnt want to
L: i think i have a slave master relationship with my body rather than an equitable/partner one
C: yeah so I mean, I think there is a very challenging conversation to be had here with yourself, potentially. and the conversation is, which one gets to be right? and why?
L: whew! i can tell you right now that my instinctive answer to that is, my brain/thoughts gets to be right. it’s unfathomable to my psyche to be effeminate 😞 i can’t even accept this outcome because it feels like it will break something in me
C: ok but, there are areas where you let the body win, I’m sure of it
L: yup of course
C: and can the body-mind come to a place where it can fall in love with itself? the whole system?
L: i love this. ill try to keep it in mind
C: so the thoughts/brain isn’t always the master
L: im in a brute force mode right now where the things i don’t like about my body, i have to find a way to medically “fix” it. but yeah you’re definitely right im nowhere near the inner balance or peace or harmony between body and mind.
L: this is actually a very enlightening conversation. ive never even thought about these things
C: yes I agree! it has been. And I think this is a good place to pause, because I need to get ready for bed.
L: aryt have a good night. and thank you so much btw. i have a lot of things to think about.